Wednesday, February 18, 2009

Okay, now I'm pissed again

From today's NY Post (owned and operated by Rupert Murdoch) a "critique" by Sean Delonas:

Anyone else think this is an incitement to violence with not so subtle racist undertones?

Cannot wait for Keith tonight... I can hear his Rupert pirate voice already.

I swear I woke up in a good mood today.


Shady Lady February 18, 2009 at 11:31 AM  

Are you kidding me?! I can't believe this was actually published! Grrr.....!!!

Sidhe February 18, 2009 at 12:01 PM  

Looks like a tabloid to me...and, in light of this, I'd give more credibility to anything I saw in any one of those rags as I was stading in the checkout line not looking at them...

That they think this is okay to print sheds some bright light on what our society will accept and it's quite frightening. I think we should all write letters to the paper decrying their choice of "critique."

itdawnedonme February 18, 2009 at 1:18 PM  

UNBELIEVABLE. That is so racist and an incitement to violence. It serves Murdoch right that his company has lost billions. I am outraged that this was printed and I hope he gets called out big time.

driftwood February 18, 2009 at 2:30 PM  

You have got to be kidding me. I assume that you're attaching some meaning to Obama? He didn't even write the stinking bill.

Besides, why is there no outcry when for years I've been hearing Bush referred to as a 'chimpenfuhrer' etc?

Get over your misplaced 'righteous' outrage.

skyewriter February 18, 2009 at 2:59 PM  

Thanks for stopping by.

Cartoonists never portrayed Bush as a full-fledged ape nor did they ever show him being dead/murdered in any kind of effigy.

You might consider the fact that a lot of under-informed people believe Obama wrote the bill (even though he indeed did not) thanks to congressional GOP lies and misdirection.

And yes, I have some righteous outrage, but ill-placed it is not.

If you are an American, you should be appalled by this and see that if you don't have a problem with this, you're the problem.

skyewriter February 18, 2009 at 3:20 PM  

PS Driftwood:

If you look at today's edition of the Post (paper, not online) on the page immediately proceeding this panel there's a photo of Obama signing the bill. Any editor worth his/her snot knows exactly what they're doing with a hard copy layout.

You and I may know he didn't write the "stinking thing" as you so eloquently write, but lots of people are going to make that connection and *laugh* at this.

It's sick. Just because you don't see it that way doesn't mean it's going to go unnoticed or be forgotten.

driftwood February 18, 2009 at 3:27 PM  

Yes, I'm an American. But no, I am not the problem.

I don't particularly care for the cartoon, but I see it as an attack on the lack of intelligence that went into the writing of the stimulus bill -- nothing more. I simply don't feel the need to scream 'racist' over stupid stuff. Save that for the things that truly are racist, and you will have more credibility when such things do happen.

And if the public is under-informed about who wrote the bill, it's the fault of the school systems and the media, not the GOP.

skyewriter February 18, 2009 at 3:40 PM  

I'm not going to go back and forth with you, driftwood, but you seem not to have read my response to your comment very carefully.

Quoting my main response:
"a lot of under-informed people"; not sure how you get "the public" out of that nor how you drew conclusions to our schools or media.

People in today's world choose to be under-informed. It's called laziness or apathy.

As for misinformation, check out Lots of evidence of lies by the congressional GOP regarding this legislation and you're right, the media did give them a mic whenever they opened their mouths.

Regardless of who wrote the bill, the cartoon shows those authors as a slaughtered, out-of-control animal. Messed up, period.

driftwood February 18, 2009 at 3:53 PM  

"A lot of under-informed people" vs. "the public"? Tomato, tomahto. What is your point? Your concern is that someone will tie the cartoon chimp to Obama and laugh at it, right?

I mentioned the school system because that is where we initially learn about our government. Who writes the bills, who signs them, etc. If people are misinformed about that, then clearly public school isn't working in this country.

Here's a statement from the editor:
In a statement, Post Editor-in-Chief Col Allan said: " 'The cartoon is a clear parody of a current news event, to wit the shooting of a violent chimpanzee in Connecticut. It broadly mocks Washington's efforts to revive the economy. Again, Al Sharpton reveals himself as nothing more than a publicity opportunist.'
(bold emphasis mine)

It would not take too much effort for me to find thousands of horrific cartoons and photoshops mocking Bush. In fact, I need go no further than your last post to find a truly sick example of BDS.

skyewriter February 18, 2009 at 4:19 PM  

Yeah, ahhh, *wipes tear from eye*

That photoshop was a good one!

As for me, I went to private schools. They taught us well there.

I already know your response. Don't bother-- because as I said, I'm not going to play with you.


True Blue Texan February 18, 2009 at 4:29 PM  

Whether you choose to draw a connection to racism or not, it clearly does imply that the authors of stimulus bill deserve to be shot.

Comparing the author to the "rampaging chimpanzee" is insulting, at the very least, and condones violence.

Murdoch is an idiot.

Seeing Eye Chick February 18, 2009 at 6:05 PM  

Uh, there is a clear historical precendence for using Monkeys to convey racial hatred.

Bush wasn't black. He was just cursed with a face that did in fact look like a Bonobo Chimp--a race of chimps notorious for their amorality as well.

But making any comparison between a monkey, chimp or gorilla to any Black Person is racist. No amount of sidestepping or backpeddling is going to undue those associations. They are only hundreds of years old.

Glad to see that there is at least one person that still loves Bush. Everyone should have at least one person to love them.

Obama's Race has been a source of attack on many fronts, and most of those have contained all the subtlety of a Perfumed Whore in Church.

So sing the Emporer's New Clothes number somewhere else. The smart people aren't buying, and probably Black People aren't buying it either.

driftwood February 18, 2009 at 6:21 PM  

I wonder why you keep deleting my comment, Skyewriter? In my private school, healthy debate and dissenting opinions were encouraged and censorship was decried. Maybe not at your school?

skyewriter February 18, 2009 at 6:21 PM  

African Americans have been writing in protest about this all day.

Anyone who can possibly think this is anything other than racist is either: racist or clueless (and in many cases both).

Bush was never killed in any cartoons.

African Americans have been historically demonized as sub-human primates.

This bill is considered Obama's baby.

Again, look at the layout, with Obama signing the bill on page 11 with this panel on page 12. It's fucked up and you can quote the self-defense of the paper all you want.

Despicably insensitive with the recent shooting of unarmed Oscar Grant.

You're wrong, driftwood. Period.

driftwood February 18, 2009 at 6:28 PM  

African Americans have been writing in protest about this all day.

The African Americans I have read today don't understand what the brouhaha is all about.

Bush was never killed in any cartoons.

Again, the chimp represents Washington, not Obama. And if racial hatred gets you upset, then why not attack Planned Parenthood, and organization begun by racial hatred which sets up the majority of their clinics in predominantly African American neighborhoods.

That ticks me off. I hate racism.

skyewriter February 18, 2009 at 6:30 PM  

Last Post script to you driftwood:

You are not going to change my mind about this, just as I am not going to change yours either. I very politely told you farewell.

If you persist in making yourself look more like an insensitive jerk, feel free. You're wasting your time and mine here.

You are way off topic now and I will delete your comments since they are totally irrelevant to this discussion should you continue your attempt for attention.

Again, ta-ta.

driftwood February 18, 2009 at 6:34 PM  

Attempt for attention? Too funny.


Seeing Eye Chick February 18, 2009 at 7:23 PM  

You know its great when people tell you exactly who they are. Drift Wood.

Dead Wood. Something that needs to be trimmed off and burned.

enough said.

Keep on Keeping On Skyewriter! Don't let logjam set your mood.

Dr. Jay SW February 18, 2009 at 7:41 PM  

That "explanation" by the Post editor was a joke...yes, it's obvious what the cartoon is parodying--but how that parody is being created, what exactly the connection is that's made between an African American president who signed a bill and a crazed gorilla that had to be shot, is also pretty obviously racist, and that's not even going into finding "humor" in imagining the assassination of a president. After great effort, I honestly can't think of any way other than that to read the cartoon that makes sense, just as I couldn't if someone did a cartoon making fun of the bankers that created the subprime mess in which the banks looked suspiciously like synagogues (or something...I've never tried to think up motifs for racist cartoons before...).

Driftwood appears to have drifted away, but I often wonder about people who make arguments like "Bush was portrayed as a monkey, too" if they are honestly so thoroughly ignorant of the history of race and racism in America, or if they're simply liars like their heroes Limbaugh, Coulter, etc.

Then, I guess that's similar to the question of whether the cartoonist is a bigot or somebody who draws cartoons that simply make no sense (having looked up some of his other cartoons on line, let me say that his frequent homophobic cartoons are all too straightforward in what they're trying to say).

driftwood February 18, 2009 at 8:01 PM  

Fascinating, seeing eye chick. You don't like what I say, so you say I should be burned.

And you don't like violence around here. I wish I could count the times I've heard people on the left making violent comments about anyone on the right -- that we should all be dead.

But you're the party of peace and tolerance, right?

Lovely. February 18, 2009 at 8:46 PM  

Driftwood is just another in a series of they did this toi Bush! Wha, wha, wha! It's like a 6 year old on a playground. People like that are not interested in a a discussion or debate. They just want to throw around labels and claim that because people were "mean" to Bush that everyone has the right to portray Obama as a monkey or in any racist way that they want. It's ludicrous.

The most important thing is that it shows the connection with the authors of the stimulus, which is presumably Democrats, being shot. Not cool. No way. No how. There is no defense to that cartoon and anyone who does is simply too thick for words.

driftwood February 18, 2009 at 9:13 PM  

That isn't what I said at all, nor what I believe. If this cartoon is racist, it's evil. But I'm not completely convinced of its intentions. If someone expressed obvious racism against Obama in my presence, I'd be the first to speak out against it.

What I am saying about Bush is not that people were just 'mean' to him. I've read things directed at Bush that would be considered death threats if they were directed at Obama. And I've read it on far too many blogs that Republicans are sub-human, should just go away, should be hanged, should be shot, should be locked away...

You can deny that people in your own party hate and wish death upon people like me that they are ideologically opposed to, but it exists. I've read it all over the internet.

skyewriter February 18, 2009 at 10:05 PM  

There's some conservative angst getting aired here by you driftwood.

No one is saying the right needs to die or whatever else you accused.

On this blog (if you took the time to look at more than this single brief post or the earlier one from today that is part of a much larger, much more complex body of commentary) I have consistently backed up arguments that expose half-truths and lies being told by the GOP in order to maintain some kind of fear-hold over this country.

I have vowed to be vigilant and to try to keep a dialogue open.

But don't expect to come here and attack people and get welcomed with open arms.

There's a lot of pissed off people who are sick of being told that how they look at the world is "gay" or "liberal" or "elite".

You wrote about righteous outrage to ME today, on MY blog and you have the cojones to act like you are being victimized somehow because you are getting called on your BS?

Take it somewhere else if you don't like what you are reading.

Don't shout and then expect people to listen to you. It's a huge turn off and you won't get very far with anyone.

driftwood February 18, 2009 at 10:32 PM  

Actually, I've been following your blog for a while, and it was one place I found a 'subhuman' type of comment:

...those congressional GOP people-like things. I can't call them human beings just yet.

That type of thinking is actually dangerous in a society. I would never refer to anyone who is ideologically opposed to me as being less than human. Healthy debate is a wonderful thing -- tearing down your opponent as less than human is not.

You are actually quite nasty to the right regularly, from all I've read. And you needn't bother to say I'm playing the victim. I really couldn't care any less what you think of me, because you don't know me or apparently care to, for that matter.

You spend a large amount of time in your posts insulting and belittling anyone on the right, publishing it for all the world to see, but then you don't like anyone on the right saying anything about it? That's fine, it's your blog, but it's a little disingenuous, don't you think?

You said:
There's a lot of pissed off people who are sick of being told that how they look at the world is "gay" or "liberal" or "elite".

Do you suppose that others are sick of being called 'stupid' or 'thick' or any other number of names? I mean, where do the insults end? When do we communicate openly with the intention of actually hearing each other without name-calling and presuppositions?

I never once 'shouted' at you, called anyone here a name, wished anyone here ill. I didn't even use a single exclamation point. :)

Seeing Eye Chick February 18, 2009 at 10:53 PM  

Boo hoo LogJam, does your pussy hurt?

Is there anything else you would like to take out of context?

Skywriter is being polite. Something you obviously don't deserve. If you actually had something of value to say, even to the contrary of the posts here, you would have said it by now. And didnt you say Adios? Couldn't let someone else have the last word.

Are you a scab picking troll in addition to dead weight? How many times will come back and wring your hands over this blog, I do wonder. And will you convey the real number to your therapist or just ink it out in your little locked Alaskan Barbie Diary?

driftwood February 18, 2009 at 11:00 PM  

As I said before, where do the insults end? When do we communicate openly with the intention of actually hearing each other without name-calling and presuppositions?

Apparently, we don't. I guess 'seeing eye chick' is incapable of intelligent conversation without resorting to silly name-calling. I said adios to Skyewriter earlier when she said she didn't want to talk, but others spoke about me, and I get emails when someone posts a comment, so I responded.

I guess there's no hope of conversing with anyone here. And it's more than sad, because I don't see this nation coming together unless we can set aside insults and name-calling. February 18, 2009 at 11:05 PM  

Driftwood, Where on liberal or progressive websites have you seen death threats to Republicans? I'd really like to know. Just recently I have been called a "Leftard," "Shit for Brains," "Dumbass," "Feminazi" etc., because I have certain views on politics.

If there have been death threats, that is deplorable, but I surf blogs pretty regularly and have never seen the sort of vitriol on progressive blogs that i have seen on the right.

I have also personally read that the agenda is to insult and intimidate. So some right wingnuts, and I am not saying that is you because, you are right, I don't know you, come on my blog and spew all kinds of trash. You get sick of it. In one day I received over 750 comments from a bunch of nuts because I had the audacity to disagree with them on gun control. My dad has guns. My brother has guns and I can talk to them about my views, It is interesting but not with these people. Some of the emails were so over the top. They are still harassing me. So that is the context at least that my comments were made.

I have been on Fox news blogs where men talk about putting Obama in the cross hairs and pulling the trigger or other blogs where they have said that they can't wait for the time that he is assassinated, but the only downside will be another useless holiday, which is a nasty swipe at Martin Luther King.

Go to It is a steady stream of racist spew and hate speech. There are many more blogs like that and worse. When people come on my blogs and swear and call me an idiot because I have a different take on politics or a news event, that is not constructive. It gets old and its just dull.

On the other hand, in real life I had an amazing discussion with a conservative who I met in an Elevator in Washington DC today about why he believes abortion is morally wrong, but cannot be outlawed constitutionally. It was rational, interesting, informed and fun. I'll never agree with him, but that's OK, I don't have to, but the discussion opened up new lines of thinking about a hot topic that left us both feeling great when it had concluded.

That's called discourse and I rarely see a conservative or right winger come on my blog or anyone else's who wants to engage in a real discourse. Instead they want to stick a label on you, make fun of your education, call you an idiot, or worse, and tell you why you are an ignorant nothing. I am sick of it and I don't think that i am alone.

Seeing Eye Chick February 18, 2009 at 11:19 PM  

You have come back 4 times since bidding us, "Adios."

You are obsessed aren't you LogJam.

driftwood February 18, 2009 at 11:25 PM, fair questions. I don't hang out at any rightward leaning blogs that speak to people that way, but I would jump in to tell them to treat you civilly if I saw it happen. There is no justification for name-calling or hatred spewing. And I don't go places that spew racism either.

I don't recall saying anything about specific death threats to Republicans -- only comments like 'subhuman' or things about them being a waste of air or should be hanged etc. And plenty of name-calling, similar to what you have experienced.

Democratic Underground and Political Carnival are a couple of sites that typically do this.

I've never been to, and from the way you describe it, I would never fit in there. If people are making comments there and other places about assassination, they should be reported.

I didn't vote for Obama, and I don't agree with a lot of his ideas and policies, but I would be more than appalled to read an assassination remark, or any racism.

And I completely agree with you regarding your conversation with the man in the elevator. That's the kind of discourse I like too. I don't have to agree with someone to respect their right to their opinion.

Seeing eye chick, chill. :)

Seeing Eye Chick February 18, 2009 at 11:40 PM  

This is a Blog, and you are not authorized to come here and censor the author. And in the absence of that, annoying someone who clearly disagrees with you, obsessively is bad form.

I will not Chill. Skyewriter is a good friend and is entitled to write anything she likes or delete it from this personal space she has cleared for herself on BlogSpot.

You can start your own blog and write whatever you want there. Delete Comments to your heart's content and rant incessantly about whatever you want.

There is no reason for me to chill. This is my country too. This is Skywriter's country as well.

The Subhuman content you keep going on about is ridiculous scant as a supporting argument to anything. Skyewriter is incredibly civil in comparison to some. And that is a testament to her good nature.

Her anger and disgust over this sorry ass excuse for a cartoon is well justified.

Seeing Eye Chick February 18, 2009 at 11:49 PM  

That is 6--Why are you still here Logjam?

driftwood February 18, 2009 at 11:52 PM  

Why do you keep addressing me if you want no response?

That's illogical.

skyewriter February 19, 2009 at 12:15 AM  

I missed Keith tonight, so I am off to check the networks and youtube for this evening's commentary on the cartoon.

You two play nice and turn the lights off when you go to bed.

Seeing eye and Catherine, thanks for being friends and fiercely loyal.

Driftwood; I do hope you stick around and get a better sense of things here. Yeah, I say some not-so-nice (true) things about the GOP (usually I use the term the congressional GOP) but in the main, they deserve it.

Try a word search with congressional GOP, you'll find all the things I have said. I've got nothing to hide nor to feel apologetic for. Some of it may have been poor sarcasm, some was dead-on criticism.

Nighty, night.

driftwood February 19, 2009 at 12:26 AM  

You two play nice and turn the lights off when you go to bed.

LOL! <--- My first exclamation point.

I appreciate the invite to stick around. Perhaps I'll comment again sometime -- if Seeing eye chick can handle it. :)

I can certainly understand some criticism of the congressional GOP -- though my criticism would likely be that many are not conservative enough. Maybe if everyone could keep in mind that we really do need two parties to temper each other. Sometimes the Dems are wrong, sometimes the Repubs are wrong.

But we are all Americans.

BTW, driftwood can be beautiful. February 19, 2009 at 12:55 AM  

Driftwood, I have voted Republican and would really love a strong two party system. I have many, many Republican friends. I was raised in a very conservative area in Michigan. There is nothing wrong with being a Republican.

Bush, in my opinion, was not a good President. I also think that these Republicans in Congress are clueless; less the party of "no," than the party of DOH!

We all agree that we are all Americans. I can show you plenty of people who have called me un-American because they label me a "liberal elitist."

Skye believes that there are no "real" Americans. And for the record, the first time I ever heard that was from Sarah Plain, the Queen of divisiveness. I personally think people like Coulter and Limbaugh drive a lot of that and it does nothing to solve our problems.

Have a good evening.

Seeing Eye Chick February 19, 2009 at 10:43 AM  

I am with Catherine--I used to be a registerred Republican, but then left when I realized that they could never accept a literate [Female] adult capable of critical thought.
So I took my vote and went elsewhere. Yep, the GOP has become the Party of *Doh! And everyday I am forced to witness their antics, I become angrier and angrier with them and their supporters.

As for Handling you DW? I already have. If Skyewriter doesn't mind your presence here, then that is her call. This is her Blog and she is the Captain.

driftwood February 19, 2009 at 3:35 PM  

Catherine, I'm still registered Republican, but it's a matter of nowhere else to go at this point.

SEC, I'm also a literate female capable of critical thought. I'm not sure what made you feel the Republican party could never accept that. Perhaps it's who you know and where you go... I know there are some jerks in the party right now, but IMHO, there are some jerks in the Democratic party right now too. There are always self-serving jerks in our government.

I guess I'm more of the old Republican school variety. The core conservative values and all that.

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