Sunday, December 14, 2008

Obama Citizenship: 10 reasons the RWFN are wrong-- AGAIN

RWFN= Right Wing F*ck Nuts

According to news sources, the United States Supreme Court conference, held Friday, December 12 determined only 2 of the conferred upon cases were certified; neither of them pertained to Obama's citizenship.

10 valid and research/reality backed points about this:

1. The case was NEVER on the docket as many uninformed conspiracy theorists have been proclaiming. It was under conference to determine whether to CERTIFY it for docket assignment. It was not certified.

2. If the case (or cases) had been certified, don't you think Fox News would have been all over it and some of the so-called "liberal" media outlets (i.e., every outlet aside from FN) would have at least mentioned it? Some folks are going so far as to say that a hearing is still a possibility because "they haven't seen the list of rejected cases, yet." *tearing my hair out, screaming at retards online and in the news, and generally going crazy over the idiocy of some people*

3. The Electoral College meets tomorrow to cast votes for the president-elect, for whom over 62% of the country voted. Get over it. He's our president. He will be inaugurated next month. (God, it cannot get here soon enough.)

4. The voices of division are as Anti-American as I have ever heard. And most of them are
conservative or Republican.

5. Although they are far within their rights to file law suits, don't the RWFN realize that they are trying to undermine the authorities of the individual states who certified Obama for the ballot? I thought they were for weaker central government and more authority in individual states? Now they are running, crying to the SCOTUS. (um how do you spell h-y-p-o-c-r-t-i-t-e-s?) Why didn't they do this when states were putting their ballots together? Primary season ended in June: election held on November 4. According to my math, that's FIVE WHOLE months to bring these frivolous suits to the courts.

6. The kooks that brought the majority of these suits are also 9/11 conspiracy theorists and many support or maintain anti-muslim propoganda or internet blogs.

7. Staunch conservatives have been conditioned to think that if they are bullies, they get what they want. In fact, we are in two wars right now because of it. Our economy is in the shitter because of it.

[Previous 8. (Under further review) Obama's birth certificate has been certified in lower courts; that's why the cases were thrown out, in addition to a "lack of merit" of the law suits.]

8. If this document is forged, a U.S. senator and his presidential campaign have perpetrated a vast, long-term fraud. They have done it with conspiring officials at the Hawaii Department of Health, the Cook County (Ill.) Bureau of Vital Statistics, the Illinois Secretary of State’s office, the Attorney Registration & Disciplinary Commission of the Supreme Court of Illinois and many other government agencies. Not to mention having fooled Columbia University, Harvard University, the Harvard Law Review and the University of Chicago Law School.

9. Many folks who are the most pissed are ones who are either racist, fundamentalist Christian, and/or just uneducated.

10. Contradictions, conspiracy, retards, and sore loseriness. That's all this is a case of.


Charlie December 14, 2008 at 2:52 PM  
This comment has been removed by the author.
Charlie December 14, 2008 at 3:02 PM  

Actually, Obama's birth certificate has never been certified by any court. The "birth certificate" posted on the Internet by Obama's campaign is no such thing but is merely an altered copy of a "certification of live birth" that is not even sufficient identification to procure a Hawaii driver's license. Furthermore, this phony document has been shown by a forensic document specialist to have been digitally altered, a fact which I have personally verified. As for the suit brought against Obama and considered by the U.S. Supreme Court, its merits (or lack thereof) were never addressed by the Court. It was summarily dismissed by the Court on the grounds that the plaintiff had "no legal standing" to bring such a suit since he stood to suffer no harm if the allegations contained in the suit proved to be true. That finding seems absurd since every single American (present and future) stands to suffer severe and irreparable harm if a usurper is installed in the Oval Office. The mystery at this point has become why so many Americans choose to keep their heads buried in the sand on this matter.

skyewriter December 14, 2008 at 3:30 PM  

Thanks for visiting, Charlie.

A few points and a few questions.

Point: If this document is forged, a U.S. senator and his presidential campaign have perpetrated a vast, long-term fraud. They have done it with conspiring officials at the Hawaii Department of Health, the Cook County (Ill.) Bureau of Vital Statistics, the Illinois Secretary of State’s office, the Attorney Registration & Disciplinary Commission of the Supreme Court of Illinois and many other government agencies.

Not to mention having fooled Columbia University, Harvard University, the Harvard Law Review and the University of Chicago Law School.

Reading these questions may seem like I am being aggressive; however, I TRULY want someone, anyone, who is on the conspiracy side of this to give me some credible, authenticated sources for their outrage.

A few questions:

Why didn't Steve Schmidt bring it up during the campaign? That seems like a better tactic than calling him a socialist and letting some conservatives believe he is a Muslim (which scares stupid people, because all Muslims are not extremists who want America to be destroyed), or Anti-American, or [insert personal smear].

Digitally altered? Have you seen the real paper document yourself? Or are you referring to the jpg file that is circulating on the net? It is digitally altered because it is a digital document.

May I ask the name of your forensic specialist so that I may investigate her/his credentials, too?

If there is a lack of veracity to the birth certificate, every American needs to be worried; however, Janice Okubo, a spokesperson for the Hawaii Department of Health verified it was a valid birth certificate. If this one is fake, every person born in Hawaii since 1961 better get theirs' checked.

Thanks again for stopping by and I look forward to your response.

Anonymous,  December 15, 2008 at 6:14 AM  

Were you referring to the Donofrio case
or the Berg case?

The "authorities" (Secretaries of State) of the individual States didn't certify Obama to be on the ballot. By law they simply take the word of the political parties that the candidates are eligible. Here are some examples: obama-south-carolina-sec-of-state-respons.pdf

The economy is "in the shitter" because of high-risk mortgages mandated by the "Community Reinvestment Act" introduced and enforced on Banks by Democrat Presidents and Democrat Congresses. Republican attempts to regulate and control were shot down.

Obama's birth certificate wasn't certified by lower courts, they just assumed that Hawaii had verified the "Certification of Live Birth" as seen on the internet. The trouble is, Hawaii Health Department Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino did not say that Obama was born in Hawaii, or that the birth certification Obama has published on the web is valid. She only said she personally verified that the health department holds
Obama's original birth certificate.

Here is why there is a lack of veracity to the birth certificate even if it isn't a forgery, and why every American should be worried:
The State of Hawaii routinely issues "Birth Certifications" for children born outside of Hawaii if the parents have been legal residents of the State of Hawaii for at least one year.
The State of Hawaii does not even consider the "Certification of Live Birth" (the short form as shown on Obama's websites) to be
sufficient evidence for their government-sponsored programs. They accept only a certified copy of a
"Certificate of Birth" (the long form).

It appears to be common knowledge in Kenya that President-elect Barack Obama was born there.
Peter Ogego - Kenyan Ambassador to the United States:
Citizens of Kenya:

If you say "His mother was a citizen, so he is automatically a citizen, too, no matter where he was born!", well, there's a problem there, too. According to the US State Department laws, Barack Obama's mother didn't meet the requirements to pass on automatic
citizenship to her son at birth, if he was born in Kenya.
Since his mother was only eighteen at the time of his birth, she doesn't meet the "physically present in the U.S. for five
years after the age of fourteen" requirement. If he was born in Kenya, he may not be a US citizen at all.

skyewriter December 15, 2008 at 10:50 AM  

Thanks for stopping by, anonymous.

And written communication online it devoid of other communicative cues so I hope you read this in the spirit with which it was written. I am trying to convey my points here to you in a non-snarky way.

I actually was referring to the Wrontnowski vs. Bysiewicz case that was under conference last Friday at the request of Alito.

It was not one of the two cases given a full hearing by the court per the AP December 12.

Yes, there was a docket for the D'Onofrio case, but we know the result of that one already.

Per your logic about the Dems responsibility to certify their candidate, do you actually think the party would stake it's entire reputation on someone they hadn't properly vetted (uh-hum)?

Dr. Chiyome Fukino:
"Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally SEEN [emphasis mine] and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."
--State of Hawaii Department of Health statement from October 31, 2008 with Governor Lingle's name on the letterhead.

I guess I don't understand your argument about the "certificate of live birth" point:

"sufficient evidence for their government-sponsored programs" To what programs are you referring?

Obama's mother was a US citizen; he was born in Hawaii. Not Kenya. Come on, anonymous. If you step outside yourself for just a moment (and if the tables were turned and we were talking about the candidate you supported), wouldn't you think I was being a bit irrational?

I think there is blame to be spread for the economic crisis; however, our president, on numerous occasions, stated he would systematically veto any Democratic-ly sponsored bills that came up from the Congress (he denied stem-cell research which would have created tens of thousands of jobs and saved who knows how many lives; he vetoed healthcare for children; a time table for Iraq withdrawl, etc.)

This somewhat tied the hands of the congress since there were not enough moderate Republicans to garner the needed votes for an over-ride. Apparently, they didn't want to break party ranks with the national elections coming up?

Doing nothing is the same as actively screwing things up. In fact, I'd have more respect for all of our politicians (whatever party) if they took action rather than sitting on their brains.

A lot of folks, even those of conservative persuasion, think this whole birth certificate thing is a conspiracy theory generated and perpetuated on the internet.

We'll know today, won't we with the certification by the electoral college?

I hope people who didn't vote for Obama will take a page from their own book and put their country first. The American electorate has spoken; it's time to but bitterness and divisiveness behind us.

Thanks for stopping by, anonymous. I mean it. It's nice to get a voice that is willing to challenge in a constructive way. I am so sick of folks shouting at each other online.

Anonymous,  December 16, 2008 at 3:59 AM  

Hi Skyewriter. I'm glad you cleared up which case you were referring to. I think that none of the cases that have been filed against any of the Secretaries of State of any state will be heard by the Supreme Court. By law, they are not responsible for vetting any presidential candidate's eligibility, the political parties are responsible.

It is possible that "the party would stake it's entire reputation" on someone they hadn't properly vetted. If someone is a Senator, it is easy to assume that they would meet the "natural-born citizen" requirement. After all, the issue of McCain's "Natural-born" eligibility came up since he was born in Panama. Ironically, there was a lawsuit against McCain for this same issue.

Dr. Chiyome Fukino said that she had seen Obama's original birth certificate, that is correct. Nevertheless, the State of Hawaii routinely issues birth certificates for children born outside of Hawaii if the parents have been legal residents of the State of Hawaii for at least one year. (See the link in my previous comment.)
She did not say if Obama was or was not born in Hawaii.

On the "Certificate of live birth" point, simply put, the State of Hawaii doesn't consider the short form certificate (like the one we've seen from Obama) to be detailed enough to be used as proof of a person's eligibility for a government program. (The program webpage is linked in my previous comment.) Considering that someone born in another state or another country can get a Hawaiian birth certificate, I'm not surprised that they don't accept the short form. The long form would have more information. long form sample hawaii-birth-certificate-1963.jpg

The electoral college doesn't certify anything, they simply cast their votes as they are pledged to cast them. The electoral college votes were cast today, but under federal law an objection to a state's electoral votes may be made to the President of the Senate during Congress's counting of electoral votes in January. (This happened in Jan 2005, as you may recall.)

My main concern is that our new president is constitutionally eligible for the office. If he isn't, it would cause untold problems with the legality of legislation he has signed, executive orders, etcetera. Simply showing a certified copy of his original birth certificate would put all these concerns to rest. If it turned out that he wasn't constitutionally eligible, then by law Biden would become President, and Nancy Pelosi would probably become Vice-President.

(BTW, 53% of the popular vote went to Obama, not 62%)

skyewriter December 16, 2008 at 11:00 AM  

Hello, anonymous,
I checked the link for the "programs" to which you referred when I read your post yesterday (thanks for providing them). I looked at them once again; I guess I still don't understand what applying for a homestead in the Hawaiian Islands has to do with Obama's being "at least 50% native Hawaiian" as stated on that page?

Because I got so fed up with internet nonsense, I called the Hawaii department of health yesterday personally (and spoke to a very nice man named Jim) about the process of getting a birth certificate for a child born outside Hawaii. He informed me that the State of Hawaii would issue a "new" birth certificate ONLY if the individual applying for it "had proof of live birth in another state within the United States".

They aren't just frivolously handing out birth certificates to folks who've lived there for a year; they have a legal process there.

I thought the suit against McCain was frivolous, too. Panama, at the time of his birth, was a US territory, so it didn't really matter WHERE in the country he was born (i.e. off the base; but who cares?). He's a citizen and I argued against progressives who wanted to make an issue out of it during the campaign. Bigger fish to fry and all.

Thanks for reminding me that the Senate certifies the electoral vote. All this talk of certification. But the vote was held yesterday, and as I said, I think so many Americans are sick of the fighting and divisiveness-- not to mention the broken image of the Republican party-- no one's going to make much of a stink about it.

John McCain himself on "This Week" with George Stephanopolis said the RNC needs to focus on things more important like the US economy (when asked about the Blagojevich drama). I wonder why outliers in his party aren't listening to him anymore?

I don't know where you live, but I currently live in the midwest and am not worried about my job or my husband's (we are both in Higher Ed). But there a hundreds of thousands of people (even friends, friends of friends, extended family members) who are making daily decisions about shelter, food and fuel because of job loss and health care.

Our country is a dire straights. I'm not saying it's the government's job to bail everyone out (I wish they'd tell the Big 3 to go take a leap; see my post last month), but something has to be done to get things moving again, or we are going to have unemployed people living off of our government, losing homes, and a generation of children who will be raised with the notion that if things go bad--just put a hand out to the government.

I agree with you that it is a bad thing if Obama is not a citizen in compliance with our constitution. However, I took the SCOTUS decision in 2000 to be the final word on the election and I think the "non-native" theorists need to do the same.

Again, thanks for stopping by.

skyewriter December 16, 2008 at 12:07 PM  

One last thing, Anonymous:
I wonder if folks would be making such a big fuss if Obama were 100% white and had a different middle name?

Doubtful . . .

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